Programmatic Pros: Desiree Tunstall, Verto Media

"People sometimes get frustrated with advertising, but the goal of (programmatic) is to make sure that (consumers) are getting messages that are really getting geared towards who (they) are and (their) preferences."

Desiree Tunstall graduated from the University of Pennsylvania with a major in history and a minor in religious studies—neither subject seems like it would lead to a career in digital advertising. After leaving Penn, she worked in the non-profit world, in government, in the White House, and then went into the private sector, working for a technology research company. However, she decided she wanted to "do something else, also in technology, but in a field that was growing faster,” so she looked to digital advertising. She worked at AppNexus, the largest independent advertising exchange, for a little over two years, learning about different facets of the industry.

Now, Desiree has co-founded her own digital audio advertising agency, Verto Media, in Northern New Jersey, and utilizes programmatic technology. Eager to help students and industry members learn more about programmatic, she discussed a few key issues with me.

Olivia: Tell me about your company, Verto Media.

  

Desiree: Verto Media is a digital audio advertising agency. So, what does that really mean? It means that we work with advertisers who are interested in communicating their messages using audio messages. We use programmatic buying strategies to help deliver those messages to the right consumer at the right time in the right medium. We also work with publishers to help them monetize their audio content. So if you’re a podcaster, a streaming radio station, or a pure play digital station like Pandora or Spotify, we will serve advertisements into those types of environments.

Olivia: It’s interesting that you work with both ends of the supply and demand spectrum!

Desiree: In this business, you have an option of working with just the advertiser, just the publisher, or working with both. … When I was working at AppNexus, I saw the companies that access to both supply, meaning the publisher, and demand, meaning the buyer, were the ones who tended to do better mostly because they understood best where their advertisements could serve and how they would perform.

Olivia: Could you speak about mobile and programmatic?

Desiree: Mobile advertising is kind of the new frontier of digital. You hear a lot of discussion about what mobile advertising is, how does it work, how are ads delivered, how is it going to be measured, and there are more and more companies getting into the mobile space, mostly because consumer behavior is mostly on mobile these days. ... So AppNexus made some significant technology and strategy investments in working on their mobile offering, and I was fortunate enough to spearhead that from a sales standpoint.

The way we look at mobile at Verto Media is that audio is naturally mobile. I mean, if you really think about where you listen to most of your audio content, it’s usually when you’re on the go. If you’re in your car, if you’re walking around listening to music or a podcast or some sort of audio publisher, you’re doing so while you’re walking around, so we look at mobile as a natural issue for us.

Mobile presents a couple of unique challenges. One of the things that programmatic advertising relies very heavily on are cookies. … Cookies are what advertisers rely upon heavily to find their users. However, there’s no concept of cookies in a mobile app environment. So, what often happens is advertisers have to find a new way to track the user. Now, you can use things like the device ID. In Apple that’s known as IDFA, Identification for Advertisers. On an Android, it’s just known as the Android ID. … However, it’s not the same as using cookies for targeting…Tracking your activity from one app to the next is not the same as tracking your activity from one browser to the next on your computer. So, what happens is advertisers have a new challenge in being able to find their users in a mobile environment. And there are technologies that are coming about that are helping people do that more effectively. It’s actually one of the reasons why Facebook is really winning, because Facebook relies on user login in order to access Facebook content. Which means that even if you are on your desktop, your tablet, your iPhone, Facebook knows who you are in all of those environments. Most websites don’t obligate you to log in, and they don’t because most people wouldn’t. They log in because they see so much value in Facebook, but there aren’t a lot of other websites that can do that. So that’s why advertisers who advertise in mobile like to do so on platforms like Facebook, because they can track across all those different devices.

Olivia: Could you speak about the out-of-home space and programmatic?

Desiree: The easiest way to think about programmatic is this— programmatic is the use of technology to deliver a particular advertisement at a particular time. So, you’re leveraging data and technology to deliver more relevant ads. So if I have a billboard, and let’s say it starts raining out, I could actually deliver an ad for Totes on that billboard, and that would be an example of programmatic advertising. Whereas back in the day, people would have to post up paper billboards and whatever is there is just there, but with these electronic billboards you can actually use different data points in the environment to determine what should be delivered.

Olivia: What are some issues or concepts that you feel make it difficult for people to understand programmatic?

Desiree: When I started working at AppNexus, of course I had to learn a lot about the space. …As I started to learn more and more, I started to realize that the very people who I was working with, my customer base, were often not knowledgeable about many parts of the ecosystem. Part of it is that there are so many technologies that it can be tough to wrap your head around everything that’s happening. The second thing is, because it’s so new, there isn’t a comprehensive educational source for most people. There are consulting companies that will come to a marketer’s office and will say “we’ll teach you everyhting about programmatic,” but those engagements can be thousands and thousands of dollars. If I am an individual and I work at an advertising technology company or I’m interested in getting into the space, where do I really go to learn about programmatic? There are some blogs out there, some of them outdated…maybe you can ask around on forums, but there’s no real go-to place for people to get that knowledge. The third thing is that many companies that are in the space invest in educating their customers, but there are many who don’t, because if their customer is confused, they can continue to make money. The more confused you are, the more I can charge you for the services that I provide, because if I lay it out for you, then we’d have to have a different kind of discussion about my value…. You know that old saying, “knowledge is power?” Knowledge is also money.

Olivia: What does the future of programmatic look like?

Desiree: I believe that the technology is going to evolve. There are a lot of pain points for publishers and advertisers. Sometimes advertisers are frustrated about where their ads are being placed, because they might serve on fraudulent inventory or mislabeled inventory. Publishers are sometimes frustrated with advertisers because they’re not getting the best pricing. A lot of those issues are just the growing pains of any new ecosystem that is putting new technology out there. And you have to keep in mind that this industry really came into being within the last ten years. That’s infancy in the life of an industry. So I believe the technology will continue to evolve, education will continue to grow, and I do believe that programmatic is going to continue to grow, and it’s not going to just be a solution for what publishers are unable to sell. I believe publishers are going to start—and many of them have—putting their premium, prime property into exchange environments. You’re going to have advertisers putting more brand dollars into programmatic. The numbers really indicate that this is what is going to happen, and based on what I’ve seen in the industry, we are going to continue moving into that trend.

Keep an eye out! Verto Media will also be putting out a formal video training series this month for people who want to learn more about programmatic.

Programmatic Pros: Leah Feigel, Amnet Group

Over the summer I had the amazing opportunity to venture to New York City and intern at Carat, a media agency part of the Dentsu Aegis Network. During my time there, I was exposed to many of the other branches of the Dentsu Aegis Network. One such branch is Amnet, the trading desk for Dentsu Aegis. I briefly shadowed an employee at Amnet, which piqued my curiosity and helped me begin my programmatic journey through this blog.

This blog is not only to help me learn about programmatic tech—it's to assist others in learning and understanding the new advertising technology available, whether it be a student interested in media buying, a consumer wondering why they see so many ads based on things they've searched, or professionals looking more into what the programmatic buzz is all about.

Since I got my start learning with Leah Feigel, an account manager at Amnet, I decided to reconnect with her, pick her brain, help others learn from her, too.

Olivia: Tell me about your role at Amnet.

Leah: I am an Account Manager with Amnet. I currently work on a variety of brands including: The Home Depot, Hilton, Gucci, and Adidas. As a manager, I am responsible for both overseeing the technical aspect of working with different systems to purchase media as well as maintain positive client relationships. Day to day, I am often optimizing campaigns for performance as well as fielding client questions about current or future opportunities.



Olivia: What types of skills do you need to do your job effectively, and how did you gain them (training course, college education, etc.)?

Leah: Well, I got my start by getting a BS in Advertising at the University of Texas at Austin. At the time, I didn’t foresee myself working in media buying at all. From a degree standpoint, I’d say anything that equips you with complex problem solving skills helps prepare you for this job. The knowledge that you gain from experience is really valuable for anyone in this industry. Technology changes so quickly that there really isn’t any other way to keep up other than to be completely immersed in it. To get your foot in the door, I’d definitely follow relevant digital industry publications like AdExchanger, Digiday, etc. Aside from that, internships are always key to getting the right connections and experience to get you started.



Olivia: What is one topic, definition, etc. you think people are missing that makes it hard for them to understand programmatic?

Leah: People often over complicate the subject. Programmatic just means automated. It simply means that you can buy media without having to have 20 conversations and signed contracts. Real time bidding (RTB) is just a form of programmatic buying (this is where people start to get lost): much like the stock market, the highest bid wins the inventory. Then throw in data… now it’s really complicated. Data is pretty infinite. Google’s CEO, Eric Schmidt, was recently quoted saying "From the dawn of civilization to 2003, five exabytes of data were created. The same amount was created in the last two days." That’s pretty crazy to think about. Marketers go nuts trying to figure out what to do with all of their data and how to fit it all in to this programmatic scene. When speaking with clients, it’s easy to geek out on every detail all in one conversation. I try my best to break each topic out and then take to the whiteboard for visuals.



Olivia: As a person in the industry, what are your thoughts on the worries people have that computers will "replace" humans in programmatic buying?

Leah: This has been a hot topic for some parts of the industry, especially sales. However, there will never be a time where the industry will rely on technology 100%. The tech we use is absolutely brilliant, but there is always the need for a human element. A computer can make billions of algorithmic based decisions, but it still lacks judgment. The technology element has allowed for some efficiencies which can mean that fewer employees are needed to manage media relationships, but I feel that the industry is finding ways to account for this from an organizational standpoint.



Olivia: What do you think the future looks like for programmatic, including some of the key technological issues such as programmatic TV and mobile?

Leah: TV is definitely on the horizon. As more and more users adopt connected TV sources like Apple TV, Roku, TV streaming apps etc., we are opening doors to gather even more data to make educated video buys. Outdoor advertising is another channel that is quickly seeing opportunities in the programmatic space. We can access digital outdoor displays and now change messaging faster than ever. Essentially, anywhere a digital or connected element exists, there will likely be opportunity. Mobile is already pretty well developed and is currently expanding into the cross device conversation. Ideally, we’ll be able to know a user’s work computer, home computer, tablet, connected game system, and mobile phone so we can reach them with the right messaging on the correct device at the right time.



Olivia: What advice do you have for marketers interested in adopting programmatic technologies?

Leah: Remember that programmatic is just a tool in your media mix. You want it to work together with your other buys and initiatives, not be completely siloed. If you are spending millions of dollars for a presence on TV, there is probably a good reason for that. Find ways for programmatic to supplement and boost your other media investments. Secondly, what are your goals? Are you looking to measure sales or are you looking to drive awareness? They’re not the same thing.



Olivia: What advice do you have for students who may be considering a career in media buying/programmatic buying?

Leah: Definitely keep up to speed with what is happening in the industry via the web. Secondly, I’d keep an ear to the ground for any opportunity to gain experience. Textbooks can’t teach you this stuff fast enough. It definitely doesn’t hurt to have experience in coding if that is something that interests you as well.



Olivia: Finally, what do you feel is an overlooked topic regarding programmatic capabilities, features, or issues?

Leah: In my experience, measurement has been a tough conversation to have. Attribution is a highly debated topic that hasn’t really settled yet. There are a ton of players in the space delivering the same message for any given advertiser, so who is owed credit? Each brand or product can be so different as well that trying to assume an industry wide standard seems impossible. For example, if I’m buying a vacation I might be exposed to a whole host of messaging from one advertiser (search, retargeting, branding). It’s likely that I may research potential choices for my vacation anywhere from a few days to a few weeks. Because someone served the very last ad to a user before they purchased online, does that mean that every advertising effort that came before isn’t owed any credit? In this case specifically, last touch attribution doesn’t seem fair. Hopefully some smart marketers will be able to find better solutions for this in the future.

Is [The Website] Real Life? Or Is It Just Fantasy?

Imagine you are a media buyer. You want to advertise in People magazine. You find out there is an extremely high number of readers per copy, and it is very inexpensive to place an ad. This is an almost perfect situation for an advertiser!

Then, you find out the magazine you thought was People is fake. It calls itself People and appears to have readers, but it actually is a poor quality magazine with few readers. All the numbers have been made up and this magazine exists only to trick advertisers so the creator can make some money off of "advertising." 

                                   

It'd be quite sad. Source

This seems pretty absurd, and it probably would never happen. It would be pretty obvious to find out that a magazine doesn't exist, and media buyers generally require that a copy of a magazine be sent to the agency to prove the correct ad actually ran.

However, online, and especially using a programmatic buying method, fraud like the above situation tends to happen often. In fact, one source says that 30-70% of digital budgets are based on fake impressions and clicks. In a programmatic exchange, many publishers of websites can enter the auction without disclosing their names or sites. This means advertisers can bid on ad space on sites that may not actually exist.

Types of Fraud

URL masking occurs when a low-quality website pretends to have a domain name that is more reputable (such as the People example above). While the ads placed on these sites may actually have human eyeballs seeing them, the traffic on these sites are often low-quality and ad space is priced much higher than it should be. This is fraud.

                                                

It's not quite who you thought it was, huh? Source

Some sites may bring in high amounts of traffic that actually turn out to be "bots" online. They pass this traffic off as real people. This is fraud.

And even though it is more like "soft fraud", some marketers may not fully understand their reports and think their programmatic campaign is working, when in fact it is the results from other digital campaigns that are carrying the campaign that are buried deeper in their data. This is another drawback to the programmatic model.

Why Does this Happen?

With programmatic, direct relationships between a publisher and an advertiser do not necessarily exist. Dishonest publisher sites in an ad exchange can easily hide their identities. An unknown publisher may put a site not driven by human traffic in an ad exchange simply to make money in a fraudulent way. These dishonest publishers often gravitate toward larger markets to make more money; thus fraud may be more prevalent in the United States than in some smaller markets using programmatic.

Exposing fraud is a lose-lose. Those who expose it are not rewarded. Fraudulent clicks are often cost-effective and have what appear to be high engagement metrics. When removing fraudulent clicks, metrics like reach and traffic go down, costs go up, and one must answer for why these dishonest sites were being bought anyway.

Ad tech companies that charge based on impressions may lose revenue by reporting that most of these impressions are false. And some believe that having millions of impressions, even if they are fake, doesn't matter if you are actually converting and having success with real people. So fraudulent impressions should just be accepted if the site is actually converting users.

Furthermore, fraud makes marketers more wary of programmatic buying, meaning a pushback against the technology, meaning one may not want to bring up these issues and discredit the programmatic method.

Most of the time, bad actors are not caught. If identified, their sites are simply put on blacklists and the creator of the fraudulent site may be able to create a new dishonest website.

A Solution?

Companies are cropping up that solely focus on fighting programmatic fraud. Xaxis is promising "humans are viewing 95 percent of online ads, or your money back." The American Association of Advertising Agencies, along with the Association of National Advertisers and the Interactive Advertising Bureau have recently formed the Trustworthy Accountability Group (TAG) to assist in fighting fraud and creating transparency between "who is getting paid and who is doing the paying." I and several other marketers believe that fraud can be stopped at the source.

Marketers ultimately are the ones who are hurt by fraud. They spend money on fake metrics that are supposed to help sell products and provide insights for their business. Marketers need to step up and insist that the impressions they are buying are of quality. They also need to demand metrics that are transparent and do not easily hide fraud in a bundle of numbers and percents.

In addition, Andrew Casale of Advertising Age suggests that barriers to entry be put in place in the programmatic ecosystem; suppliers should offer their name of their site and the human's name that will be placed on the check written by marketers. In this way, cons can be deterred from using the programmatic space in such a dishonest manner and, if they are found to be fraudulent, the creator can easily be identified.

Do you think programmatic fraud is a problem? Have you experienced it, and do you have any further solutions to stop it?